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sneakyjake
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Wed Aug 23rd, 2006 |
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 01:42 pm |
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| This is in response to Turkeynut's post. I haven't researched it so just off the top of my head the expandable is mor accurate leading to a greater chance for a quick, clean kill. I have shot over a dozen deer with fixed blades and have seen just as many by friends taken, and have yet to see a broadhead come out. It seems that either they pass through or stay in and do even more damage. How many other states with big game outlaw expandables, not sure. Probably none considering how they like to reinvent the wheel around here. Anyone?
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Spurdaddy
Member
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Posted: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008 07:19 pm |
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| As far as expandables go, I think the fear is animals running around with a barbed or expandable tip in them that won't just shake out, especially in poorly hit animals.....Try as we will, poor shots are made for whatever reason and the regulation folks I think, fear the worst possible result in each case. Why not any electronics, etc (lighted nocks). Theres a lot of their thinking I don't understand............Just my thoughts............Spurdaddy
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:36 am |
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The only reason I could find why we don't allow them is in talking with Doug down @ Great NW he said it's because of the traditonal lobby. There's agroup of die hard cedar shooters that don't want them because of their lack of primitve device. NOw I'm not harping on any sect of hunter, we don't need any in-fighting And I understand the whole primitive concept, but when we're already using cams and gizmos galore, what's wrong with using an effective arrow poit that will minimize marginal shots even if it's a small increase? Those bad boys do not plane whatsoever, althoough my G5 Montec don't either but they can if the proper wind hits them, where the expandable is nearly perfect.
SD I understand also about the arrow staying with the animal but those of us who will exhaust all efforts to recover would want that so as to continue hemmoraging and bring that animal down. Last year when I popped that jake , I searched everywhere for hours, but never did find him. No one felt worse, and still do. Even though my archery friends tell me that's life it'll happen don't make it any better. So this year I will go with the 2" cut Rage, it would've bled him for sure. Heck in a tourney i score an 8 on that hit, but it wasn't a tourney and I got Zero
Sneaky, I wasn't ignoring you I just hadn't noticed this post, but thanks for the FYI
Last edited on Tue Mar 18th, 2008 02:37 am by Turkeynut
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sneakyjake
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Wed Aug 23rd, 2006 |
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| Posts: | 230 |
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 01:10 pm |
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| Those Rages look nice. I was thinking on getting them for a caribou hunt this year. Have you shot them very much, they seem to get a lot of endorsements.
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Spurdaddy
Member
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Posted: Tue Mar 18th, 2008 03:47 pm |
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I think that as long as the arrow is in the animal, it is doing its job to bring the animal down........but there are those that don't like bow hunting in general because they don't think the animal is dispatched cleanly or fast enough.....Don't think we will ever please everybody.....I can live with it if I feel I did everything poosible to make a good shot and did the followup to claim my kill............Spurdaddy
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 02:43 am |
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GOod advice, i know I searched every possible route he took, chalked him up to yote food.
Sneaky I shot them well the practice tip qiute a bit. Like a field point, no flutter at all. Straight and true, I'm going to match them with some arrows i had fletched in feather from a tom i shot a couple years ago. that was the truest arrow I've shot.
But again those Rage shot real nice i was impressed. Plus I liked the two blade just because they reach a total of 2inches on the cut, as opposed to1 5/8 on the three blade. I know my G5's last year probably only missed vitals by fractions of an inch. I went clear through the breast bone, in fact there are permanent creases where the fletch passed through the bone.
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 02:45 am |
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| Another question since we're talking arrow heads, anyone try or seen that new Magnus turkey head. It's in the same concept of the Guillotine but they put the blades in a helical to offer rotation. wondering if anyone knew hoe those flew?
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Spurdaddy
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 01:22 pm |
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| Not yet...but I will keep an eye out for them......Sportmanswarehouse or Cabelas will have them I'm sure........Spurdaddy
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Thu Mar 20th, 2008 11:23 pm |
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| I think it was the Sportsman's WH where I saw them.
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slee
Member
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Posted: Wed Apr 16th, 2008 02:35 am |
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| I think the biggest issue with expandables is it takes a certain amount of energy away from the arrow to deploy the blades on almost all designs. When you've got people shooting the minimum in weight trying to use expandables that don't have energy to spare, you're asking for bad things to happen. The other thing that I think is a misconception to a large extent is the design of today's expandable heads. When they first came out 20 years ago, there were many instances where you could shoot a deer and watch the broadhead fail to deploy, get destroyed on impact, or some actually bounced off the animal. Bows today are generally faster and more efficient, the broadhead design is way better and more dependable, and the overall outcome is more consistent. I don't have a problem if the bow can shoot them with energy to spare because they are inherently more accurate. Just my .02. Ya'll be good.
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Thu Apr 17th, 2008 03:15 am |
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| Great points on the energy and the wayback when expandables. bet that's more the reasoms today, the reg was written back then and we have't properly challenged that. as for the energy point, that is one more reason for using them on turkeys, i want that arrow slowed a bit, to hopefully hagn up in him and possibly slow him down, Like you Slee I know I have the energy to use them for big game too. Like Krusty was talkin on the other post the more regs some times hurts more than helps?
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slee
Member
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Posted: Sat Apr 19th, 2008 01:34 am |
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| I wish I could get my hands on those first expandables I tried soooo many years ago. They were called Punch Cutters. They had a cone shaped tip that pushed in on a spring that caused the blades to scissor back. The springy tip killed energy like you wouldn't believe. Would make a great turkey blade though.
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stiknstringbow
Member
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 05:37 am |
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Spurdaddy wrote: As far as expandables go, I think the fear is animals running around with a barbed or expandable tip in them that won't just shake out, especially in poorly hit animals.....Try as we will, poor shots are made for whatever reason and the regulation folks I think, fear the worst possible result in each case. Why not any electronics, etc (lighted nocks). Theres a lot of their thinking I don't understand............Just my thoughts............Spurdaddy
as far as my understanding is on the regulation was the same ,no barbs, How many times have you heard the stories from modern firearm hunters about deer and elk "running around with arrows sticking out of them" I know it is usually B.S. but unfortunately it only takes 1 time for it to be true to make us ALL look bad. Also, I have heard that their entry hole is smaller and that would reduce the blood trail resulting in an unrecovered animal (a lot of hunters cant track worth [url=mailto:s@#$]s@#$[/url]) The lighted nock issue is probably from my trad brethren who want to preserve the primitive aspect of the sport. I feel that an arrow is an arrow and we need to quit fighting and finger pointing amongst ourselves. We are all hunters and we should act accordingly, With respect to the animal first and formost practice until you can make a clean kill and use what works best for our individual abilities.
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 10:51 pm |
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stiknstringbow wrote: Spurdaddy wrote: As far as expandables go, I think the fear is animals running around with a barbed or expandable tip in them that won't just shake out, especially in poorly hit animals.....Try as we will, poor shots are made for whatever reason and the regulation folks I think, fear the worst possible result in each case. Why not any electronics, etc (lighted nocks). Theres a lot of their thinking I don't understand............Just my thoughts............Spurdaddy
as far as my understanding is on the regulation was the same ,no barbs, How many times have you heard the stories from modern firearm hunters about deer and elk "running around with arrows sticking out of them" I know it is usually B.S. but unfortunately it only takes 1 time for it to be true to make us ALL look bad. Also, I have heard that their entry hole is smaller and that would reduce the blood trail resulting in an unrecovered animal (a lot of hunters cant track worth [url=mailto:s@#$]s@#$[/url]) The lighted nock issue is probably from my trad brethren who want to preserve the primitive aspect of the sport. I feel that an arrow is an arrow and we need to quit fighting and finger pointing amongst ourselves. We are all hunters and we should act accordingly, With respect to the animal first and formost practice until you can make a clean kill and use what works best for our individual abilities.
AMEN!..
I can understand partially form the traditionalist view point, but barring a few advancements what part of a parallel limbed twin cam 320fps bow with carbon arrows and glow in the dark sight system is still traditional? I too think the in-fighting is just what they want us to do, we need to all remember we're hunters regardless of weapon, I own all three major types, bow, rifle, and ML and each year I weigh in on what I want to use. Luckily I've been picked for either the Multi-Elk or deer tag each year it's been running.
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stiknstringbow
Member
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Posted: Sat May 17th, 2008 08:18 am |
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| Lucky you! as far as what is traditional about twin cam ect. nothing! but when you go to the meetings and try to have some influance to the regulation process you cannot accomplish a whole lot in the three minutes they give you, and when you are a minority within a minority, any type of victory no matter how insignifacant is major. Traditional archers don't want to be out in the woods with other hunters shooting at animals 80+ yards out, we limit ourselves by our weapon of choice and believe that archery was meant to be at close range, if you can shoot as far as a muzzle loader what is going to keep our seasons separate? The conflict between user groups is based upon misunderstanding of "resource allocation" and without some distinction between what is primative and modern the seasons are going to get simplified and fees are going to raise and lack of ethics(amongst some) is going to hurt us all.
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Turkeynut
Member
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Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 09:39 pm |
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| Agreed but if the WDFW slpit the weapons groups up any farther we'd be hunting the aniamls from summer to spring and it'd wouldn't guve the animals any break. I am for keeping the season respectively primitive, even though I hunt with a ML sometimes I DO NOT agree with using sealed breech or 209's or any of that, I do use an in-line but wouldn't be opposed to using just side locks. The biggest beef I have is when we as hunters in fight, and those who use a primitive style weappon that isn't truly primitive, gripng about what other primitive weapons can have.
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stiknstringbow
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 05:51 am |
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| The point I was trying to make was I do not care what weapon you use, We are all hunters by choice. I am a traditional bowhunter by choice, I use a primitive weapon because I like it, if you want to use a modern weapon use it during modern seasons.If you want to use a ML during ML season O.K. The regs prohibit in-lines,209 primers, and scopes, unless you are in a firearm restricted area during modern firearm season. Archery is getting modernized with 300fps bows and rangefinders and some hunters I have talked to have seriously taken shots at elk over 80 yards away.(no recovery of either the animal or arrow) I do not think that ANY bowhunter with any ethics would take that shot, but there are idiots out there in all user groups that think getting an animal is what it is all about, not how they did it, or why. We are all in this together and we need to protect our image in the publics eyes and restrict ourselves to doing what is best for the animals we pusue and the places we visit.
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sneakyjake
Super Moderator
| Joined: | Wed Aug 23rd, 2006 |
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 03:07 pm |
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I would say that all of my traditional friends are equally as successful as my modern archery friends. I doubt they have done a poll on it, and they probably shouldn't in case it got skewed and causes someone to start crying.
I have some buddies that are in the long shot for elk crew. Every time the conversation comes up they are convinced that the only way to get an elk is to fling arrows and slow it down. I just stand my ground and tell them that isn't the way I hunt. I have passed up a lot of shots over the years and feel good about it. They think I am crazy because I don't have any meat on the ground, that I should be taking these shots. I figure that if I just keep to my guns and am successful in my own way that maybe they will change theirs.
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Spurdaddy
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 05:01 pm |
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| Stick to your guns on the Elk deal Jeff..........We as bow hunters get a bad enough rap, we don't need to add fuel to the fire...........Ira
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stiknstringbow
Member
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Posted: Wed May 28th, 2008 05:56 pm |
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sneakyjake wrote: I would say that all of my traditional friends are equally as successful as my modern archery friends. I doubt they have done a poll on it, and they probably shouldn't in case it got skewed and causes someone to start crying.
I have some buddies that are in the long shot for elk crew. Every time the conversation comes up they are convinced that the only way to get an elk is to fling arrows and slow it down. I just stand my ground and tell them that isn't the way I hunt. I have passed up a lot of shots over the years and feel good about it. They think I am crazy because I don't have any meat on the ground, that I should be taking these shots. I figure that if I just keep to my guns and am successful in my own way that maybe they will change theirs.
Congratulations you are a responsible bowhunter, NOBODY should take a shot with any weapon that does not assure a clean one shot kill. success is not measured by meat on the ground, but by a quality experience while out in the field. If you are passing shots because you are not sure, then you are the type of sportsman who is welcome at my campfire anytime, Youre "hope and fling" buddys should take the bowhunter ed class and not tell anybody about the times they acted irresponsibly. Modern archery has a place within the archery season if those hunters use common sense and only take reasonable shots.
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